This is the transcript of an episode of our podcast, That Cancer Conversation. You can listen to the episode here

Sophie (host)

Hi and welcome to That Cancer Conversation: One to one, where we’ll be getting to know the people who make Cancer Research UK what it is. 

I’m Sophie Wedekind, and in this episode I’m chatting with Dr Laura Danielson, the lead for children and young people’s research at Cancer Research UK. 

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September is Childhood Cancer Awareness month and Laura helps develop our dedicated strategy to drive progress for children and young people’s cancers. I sat down with her to talk about her journey to Cancer Research UK and what it’s like to work in the field of Children and young people’s cancer. 

So Laura, welcome to the podcast. I’m going to start with the big question – how did you end up working at Cancer Research UK? 

Laura

Yeah, so quite a journey. So I did my PhD in New York City on sarcoma, which is a relatively rare tumour type. My particular sarcoma did occur more often in adults, but its counterpart was very commonly found in children. And that’s where I got really introduced to sort of the challenges that can occur when you have a tumour type in children. And it was there also that I realised how difficult (it is) researching tumour types like these that are relatively rare compared to adult cancers. And I was working on how do these develop, and how do they arise? And how do they spread. And then when I thought about what I wanted to do with my postdoc, I really wanted to move closer to the patient and patient benefit. And I really wanted to stay in cancer where I knew needed the help needed to have somebody with a passion and drive to really to think about these challenges. And I really wanted to be much closer to the clinical side of things. So I sold everything I owned, bought a one–way ticket to London from New York City, and joined a lab where I was working on neuroblastoma, which is a tumour type that occurs in children. I was working on developing new therapies specifically for high–risk neuroblastoma. So the kids in this category had the lowest chance of survival. And I was working on developing new therapies to treat these children.

Sophie

Wow, leaving your home behind and your family and friends – that must not have been an easy decision to make. 

Laura

Yeah, I mean, it certainly wasn’t easy. I literally did not know a single person in this country, when I landed here from New York City, but I’ve always had a real drive for answering questions that were unknown. And that’s what really drove, you know, drove me into the research field, in general. And it just became more and more sort of fire inside of me when I came into the fields that I, you know, started to learn about and be more passionate about. So when I saw the opportunity, and it was actually a CRUK funded postdoctoral award, it was a real homecoming in the fact I was funded by CRUK in neuroblastoma. 

When I saw that opportunity, it was exactly what I wanted to do – I wanted to work in a lab that was developing the next generation of therapies, I wanted to work in a lab that was funding cutting edge science. And I wanted to work in a lab that was the next step, that was closest to getting our discoveries into patients and into the world of helping these young children. So when you find that and when that opportunity comes, and I was very fortunate to be offered it, you know, I happily skipped onto the plane, if I’m honest, I mean, my mom probably didn’t love it, and, you know, I haven’t looked back. So that was over, you know, 10 years ago now. And I’m so fortunate to be here, at CRUK now, to be leading on the work that sort of really inspired me as a researcher, and to now be expanding that, you know. I worked on one cancer type and one drug. And now I’m able to drive for all cancer types, and all options, and to really have a much bigger impact. And being in this role, at CRUK is allowing me to do that, which is an incredible privilege that I definitely don’t, don’t take for granted. And I’m really honoured to be in the role. 

Sophie

Yeah. I guess when you were in your first role at Cancer Research UK, in science communication, you really got that ability to look at all sorts of amazing research that’s happening and to engage with the public in a way a researcher might not normally get to do. But when you were doing your research, was there a moment you experienced that really motivated you to pursue this career switch? 

Laura

I had the extremely fortunate situation of meeting a little girl who was essentially saved by the drug that I was working on. And we got to meet her and her family. And they came into my lab, and she put my lab coat on and was literally bouncing around the lab full of life after having been treated with one of the drugs I was working on. And it was amazing, because she even pointed (to) the samples I had on my desk saying, “That’s my drug! That’s my drug!” And it really, really hit me. And it really showed what my research could do and the difference that my research was making. And the fact that my research actually was one step ahead of where she was in her treatment. Because my research was asking also, what happens if this comes back? What happens if this tumour relapses while on the drug. And it really showed the importance of not only the research that got us to the point where this drug was available for this little girl, but also the research that needed to keep happening to make sure we were one step ahead.  

But during that time, I started doing a lot more with engagement, working in science communications and working with the public, talking about why we do what we do as researchers. Because I was doing a lot of it, I loved talking about why we do what we do and why it’s so important and seeing that little light bulb come on. Or you know, the questions they would ask, I loved working with kids in that setting. I worked with them quite a lot. And they come up with the most amazing questions. Because we think about these nitty gritty, like the biggest detail of every question, and they’ll ask, like, they’ll sit back and look at you and ask you a fundamental question. And it’s a really, really great experience. And I remember being at an event thinking if I could do this for a living and, and make this impact, even 50% of what I felt in this room right now, talking about why my research is so important, then that felt like the right path for me. And that’s partly why I was able to sort of hang up my lab coat at the time, and move full time into working for Cancer Research UK, and being able to translate my skills in that area and my passion for that and to really make an impact on a much bigger scale. 

Sophie

and what was it like to see that kind of personal connection with the drug you were working on?

Laura

I was literally speechless, I just, I can still close my eyes and just imagine it, I can relive this sort of moment of that. And it really drove it home for me, because, you know, I called it by its name, you know, its technical name like ABC 123, you know, and for me, it was the drug that I was testing. And until you see a life that that drug has actually saved...and the connection this little girl had with it was incredible. And she knew and she understood the power of her drug, and what that drug meant. And again, that’s just one example of all of the children across the UK, you know, 4,200 children a year in the UK are diagnosed children and young people are diagnosed with cancer. So, you know, that was just one representation of all the different stories that are happening across the UK. And so being able to be part of her story was an absolute honour. And, you know, now being here, I feel, although slightly more removed, because I’m not in the lab doing it. But I know that I can be a part of all those children’s journeys by being able to lead on the work that CRUK is doing in this space.   

Sophie

And that knowledge is really powerful. There’s still a lot of fear around the word ‘cancer’ and a diagnosis can be world-altering for so many people. So when you have someone who’s able to communicate it and actually tell you about it and explain it, you feel like you’ve got a little bit more power to move forward.

Laura

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And in fact, our information pages on CRUK are obviously really popular, and we have children’s one we just launched – a specific young person’s one, as part of our teenager, young adult cancer awareness month launched last April. And we’ve got feedback from the public about how that that page is so meaningful to have the information, particularly for that age group is so important. So yeah, absolutely right. 

Sophie

And you also mentioned when you were talking about your time as a researcher, that there are quite a few challenges that come with children and young people’s cancer research. What sort of challenges did you come across?

Laura

Yeah, as a researcher, I sort of experienced firsthand some of the challenges that we have for children and young people’s research. One of them is not necessarily having the same amount of resource, and an infrastructure that a lot of adult cancer researchers can experience. For example, in my work, there was only two or three cell lines that existed for my cancer type in the world, you know. For comparison, you know, for other cancer types, you will have hundreds of labs themselves, that can produce that many on their own, and you have lots of patient-derived models and cell lines available. But because my cancer type was so rare, I only had access to three cell lines. And that immediately meant that I couldn’t publish my work in a really, really high impact journal, because there’s a threshold of how many cell lines you have to test your work on. And so you know, there’s immediate challenges in that way, not having the right models to do your work and not having the right cell lines. And that’s actually a really important part of our strategy as an organisation: to really make sure our research community has the tools and infrastructure and resources they need to do world class, you know, high-quality, leading research.  

The other challenge I really ran into, and I’ll never forget this day, I must say, is in my lab, where I was working on drug development, I had tested a drug in our model, and it worked. And that day, we’ll never forget, I got to the imaging screen and it like slowly, you know, ticked up as the image came into resolution, and I was like, “The tumour is gone. The tumour is gone.” And I remember I can feel now almost getting goosebumps, I can feel it. I was like “The tumour’s gone, it’s worked!” And it was actually the first time that we were ever able to test in this model, this particular new therapy. And we discussed with the pharmaceutical company, this drug. And because cancers in the paediatric world, in children and young people are less common in adult cancers, there’s a there’s a lack of engagement with industry in this space, it’s a real challenge to try and get new therapies and new drugs to children and young people. And we were basically told that they weren’t going to be opening a trial for children and young people with this drug. And I remember walking away thinking, ‘but what do you mean? look, I just showed you it could work’, you know, and, and it was perhaps slightly naive on my part in the sense that I’m like, ‘Well, this is all you need to see, right? Like, it works, let’s save the children!’ But it’s much more complicated than that. These trials are really expensive. They need to be international. And there’s a lot of barriers to international work and in terms of getting these trials up and running for children and young people. And so, you know, having said that, the trial did eventually get run in the US and it is now coming to the UK. So it does happen but it takes a long time. And there’s a lot of cases where it doesn’t happen. And there is a barrier that just literally stops drug development and new therapy development for children and young people. So that’s a real area of focus for us as well at Cancer Research UK really thinking about how can we develop new drugs with these patients because, as you know, quite a few of these tumour types will be responsive to chemotherapy, which is great. And you know, the overall survival for children and people’s cancers is over 80%, which is fantastic. But there are still 20% who don’t survive. And it’s also a really toxic treatment for these young kids. So it’s really, really important that we as an organisation, and we as a collective, you know, mission shared, you know, group can really think about how we address these barriers particularly. 

Sophie

Yeah 100%. And that’s a really important area for families because, as you said, treatment can be quite toxic. And those experiences can really stay with not only children and young people who have gone through that, but their loved ones too. And it’s those challenges and personal stories that really drive our research. 

Laura

Yes, absolutely. And I think, particularly when I talk a lot about what we’re doing in this space, what really, really resonates with me, and I know can resonate with the public, is the fact that, as I already mentioned that 4,200 children a year in the UK, on average, are diagnosed with cancer. You know, there’s families currently sat right now in a hospital about ready to get a diagnosis for their child or young person. And people can resonate with that. It’s a horribly devastating disease for these young children and for the families and it’s hugely affecting and, you know, I’m a mom now. Now I have two young children. And when I came into this role, it very uniquely impacted me in that way. And everybody can resonate, you know:  those children who are diagnosed, we as an organisation and myself as a person, want to do everything we can to make sure that those children not only survive their diagnosis – which some of them you know, won’t have an effective therapy known today, the day they’re diagnosed. Many of them, because as I said, overall survival has increased dramatically over the years, many of them will survive, which is fantastic. But as I mentioned, the therapies that they’re receiving are very toxic. And these children and young people have the rest of their life to live. So, we have to consider the long–term effects and we need to make sure that those that do survive also do so with a good quality of life. And it’s a message of hope that we can give as an organisation that we’re, you know, doing what we can to tackle these barriers to progress in this space. And I uniquely feel it every night, you know (when) I put my kids to bed and I know that, you know, I’ve spent that day doing what I can, as a person, but with an organisation as well, that is really driven in prioritising children and people’s cancers within our research strategy. And really working with other like-minded organisations, patients, parents and carers with lived experience, our researchers. I mean, my days go from talking to somebody in policy to talking to some, you know, the researchers around challenges to talking about the events team about how we can pull a conference together to galvanise our researchers. Every day is different. And every day and every meeting play a unique part of what we can do as an organisation to drive progress. And, you know, as I sort of tuck my kids into bed, I give them an extra squeeze, because this is a highly emotive area I work in, but also, you know, I have confidence, knowing that I’ve spent that day bringing us one day closer to really being able to say that all children, every child or young person diagnosed, can have a good outcome and live, you know, a longer better life free from the fear of cancer. And that means a lot to me to be able to do that.  

Sophie

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This episode was produced by the digital news team at Cancer Research UK. Thanks for listening and talk to you next time.